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Talk:Ontario
The Two Georges In "The Two Georges", Ontario has the same boundary as OTL but is called Canada. This is consistent with history in that the territory was initially called Canada after the Seven Years War. Strangely enough, the map of the NAU indicates Manitoba was named Ontario. Its not referenced in the text as far as I recall so I will not make a sub-article for it. ML4E 03:31, 17 March 2008 (UTC) Re T2G: Why don't we put this under Canada and talk about Ontario (Manitoba)'s role on this page? It would be confusing as all hell but it would be more consistent. :Because we have been placing story articles as sub-sections in the main article based on OTL. For instance, if HT had decided to call it "New Wales" say, I think you wouldn't have any problem with it being here stating "New Wales was ..." The difficulty, in this case, is he uses an OTL name for a different piece of OTL geography. ML4E 22:40, February 23, 2010 (UTC) ::Yes, places with different names are usually put into the article on the one place--Hawaii#Hawaii in Southern Victory, for example. I think, though, that the fact that "Ontario in The Two Georges" refers to something that is not Ontario in The Two Georges is a bit too much of a mindfuck. Someone looking for information on something that is called Ontario and only Ontario in the book would probably look here first, then be like "What the shizzle?" when they see what we have here. ::I think it would be best if we just made it say "See Ontario (The Two Georges) and made such a page exist. When something has the same name as something in OTL but is fundamentally different, we've done that before--World War II (The War That Came Early). ::The current section could be moved to the T2G section of Canada, which would have the advantage of being what it's called as well as the fact that calling the real Ontario Canada is not contradictory as the current version is. Turtle Fan 03:22, February 24, 2010 (UTC) Atlantis Re Atlantis:I have no recollection of that. I recall Radcliff sending Paine to "British colonies on Terranova" to try to stir up trouble, and that eventually he actually turned out to have success, which is rather unusual when HT has a main character send a bit player off to raise Cain offstage. Turtle Fan 19:39, February 23, 2010 (UTC) :It was in "The Scarlet Band". TR 01:39, February 24, 2010 (UTC) ::Oh, of course. Because something like that should not be shown in progress but rather referred to a century after the fact. Was he practicing for HW? Turtle Fan 03:22, February 24, 2010 (UTC) I was taking a close look at the cover of Opening Atlantis to try to get an idea of Ontario's extent and noticed something quite clever by the artist. The dividing line for the northern shoreline of Atlantis is the Saint Lawrence River so lower Quebec including the Gaspe Peninsula as well as Nova Scotia and New Brunswick are part of Atlantis. What is clever is that the artist didn't just use the northern shore of Lakes Ontario and Erie as the coast of Terranova. The bottoms of the two lakes are partly above sea level so he extended the shore southeast making the it straighter rather than scooped. :Clever indeed. I always thought Atlantis's west coast looked a bit off but could never put my finger on it. And I guess Avalon's vaunted excellent harbor would probably be in the area in question, hmm? Turtle Fan 00:31, May 8, 2011 (UTC) As far as Ontario is concerned, I expect it includes present day Ontario along with the remainder of Quebec and Labrador. It may also include Newfoundland but I have no notion as to how far west and south it extends. Best to leave that as it is in the article. :Could it go all the way to what we know as BC? We really have no way of knowing, do we. And I wonder whatever happened to what is known historically as the Louisiana Territory. France presumably didn't hold it. Atlantis certainly didn't buy it. We know from an off-the-cuff remark in LA, I believe, that much of the continent is given over to small republican dictatorships. I'd assume Louisiana and perhaps western Canada would be the affected areas. Ontario is probably the continent's dominant power. A story that explored Terranova a bit would have been nice, I have to say. Turtle Fan 00:31, May 8, 2011 (UTC) ::Its possible that Ontario extends to BC but unlikely. Helms in TSB comments that Ontario is in the northeastern part of Terranova. If it extended to BC he likely would have said northern part of Terranova. The pressure to expand westward into the prairies in OTL was in response to US western expansion so that they wouldn't expand north and west. It was a sort of geopolitical use it or lose it situation. My question was more about southwest expansion along the Atlantic shore. I would think that the land between the remaining Great Lakes and the Atlantic would be part of Ontario but how far south would it go? :::Yeah, forgot about Helms's line. Still, Ontario or the British colony that preceded it would likely be under some pressure to expand westward: There wasn't one monolithic competitor for the west as there was in OTL, but the governments holding what amounts to the western US would be expanding. In fact, they'd be expanding at each other's expense, which would get them used to violating their neighbors' territorial claims. Ontario might do well to bite off as large a chunk of the borderlands as possible and fortify its boundaries. Turtle Fan 23:44, May 8, 2011 (UTC) ::This isn't to say BC wasn't established as a separate British colony (as in OTL) and became an independent Dominion. It might have expanded south along the Pacific and west over the Rockies. The latter has a certain twee reversal (go east young man!) that tickles my funny bone. Did Spain colonize Mexico and the US southwest as in our time? That would put a limit on southern expansion down the west coast. :::They'd probably call it British Radcliffia, or maybe Kersauzonia; BC's namesake was no Brit, after all. Would be interesting if it were an Australia/New Zealand situation. That might also explain why Helms only referred to Ontario: When most people from outside Oceania discuss the region, New Zealand tends to be an afterthought. Turtle Fan 23:44, May 8, 2011 (UTC) ::In AiA Audubon took a riverboat from St. Louis to the mouth of the Big Muddy River. When Audubon bought his passage to Atlantis, the clerk automatically spoke to him in English. Audubon reflects how a generation earlier he would have automatically spoken in French. This suggests the French colonized the Mississippi valley from Louisiana the same way as they had in OTL. Its not clear if the change in language is due to conquest by an English colony(ies) or just from English becoming the dominant language in northern Terranova. ML4E 19:12, May 8, 2011 (UTC)